Comments on: BP Fights Self in Phone Booth, Loses Match http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2008/12/bp-fights-self-in-phone-booth-loses-match/ Truth in Energy Thu, 09 Feb 2012 01:50:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Abdulaziz Alkhowaiter http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2008/12/bp-fights-self-in-phone-booth-loses-match/#comment-46 Abdulaziz Alkhowaiter Wed, 03 Dec 2008 07:32:59 +0000 http://www.aspousa.org/?p=495#comment-46 Why do many ASPO'ers take BP and other peak oil deniers at face value? Do you honestly believe they are that stupid, and ASPO so much smarter? Don't kid yourselves! To find the answer to their denial of a physical reality, we must look elsewhere. Peak oil means peak economic growth, which in turn causes a devaluation of all equity values and destroys any hope of future debts being paid off. What we will have is the complete implosion of the current financial system. The collapse could be so severe that most current political entities would also cease to exist. This is obviously not something that anyone responsible would want to report to the average joe in the street. More than anything, ASPO need to get a handle on the timing of the final collapse and its severity. Phase one of this financial ruin has begun. What are the options left to the main players in this dramatic game? Why do many ASPO’ers take BP and other peak oil deniers at face value? Do you honestly believe they are that stupid, and ASPO so much smarter? Don’t kid yourselves! To find the answer to their denial of a physical reality, we must look elsewhere. Peak oil means peak economic growth, which in turn causes a devaluation of all equity values and destroys any hope of future debts being paid off. What we will have is the complete implosion of the current financial system. The collapse could be so severe that most current political entities would also cease to exist. This is obviously not something that anyone responsible would want to report to the average joe in the street. More than anything, ASPO need to get a handle on the timing of the final collapse and its severity. Phase one of this financial ruin has begun. What are the options left to the main players in this dramatic game?

]]> By: Ben Levi http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2008/12/bp-fights-self-in-phone-booth-loses-match/#comment-43 Ben Levi Tue, 02 Dec 2008 09:14:46 +0000 http://www.aspousa.org/?p=495#comment-43 It seems to me that to peak oil debunkers such as BP's Chief Economist Ruhl, the exact wording of what they say is important. His statement in 2008 that you can turn anything into oil if you're willing to pay the financial and environmental price, is based on emerging technologies that were only ideas back in 1996, and barely realities in 2001 (let alone mature in 2008). One can say that peak oil doesn't exist if one ignores EROEI and creates oil using technologies such as tar sands conversion that take almost as much energy to produce the oil as the oil returns (especially if that energy comes from "clean" nuclear). And with technologies like coal-to-liquid fuels, which have huge environmental costs, the argument gets quite a bit clearer... we can have plenty of oil if you let us pollute as much as we need to. So it seems to me the key to the conversation is pinning down the context, so you're talking about the same "picture" (a picture's worth 1,000 words, but they're not always the same words). Once that's done, I actually think everyone would be much closer to being on the same page. If you take EROEI and the environment into account (or not), there's probably more agreement than differences with regard to future global oil supplies, consumption (and the price of oil) notwithstanding. That's no excuse for not strategically planning ten or more years into the future, but it would explain why there's more denial than acceptance of what the future will bring. It seems to me that to peak oil debunkers such as BP’s Chief Economist Ruhl, the exact wording of what they say is important. His statement in 2008 that you can turn anything into oil if you’re willing to pay the financial and environmental price, is based on emerging technologies that were only ideas back in 1996, and barely realities in 2001 (let alone mature in 2008). One can say that peak oil doesn’t exist if one ignores EROEI and creates oil using technologies such as tar sands conversion that take almost as much energy to produce the oil as the oil returns (especially if that energy comes from “clean” nuclear). And with technologies like coal-to-liquid fuels, which have huge environmental costs, the argument gets quite a bit clearer… we can have plenty of oil if you let us pollute as much as we need to. So it seems to me the key to the conversation is pinning down the context, so you’re talking about the same “picture” (a picture’s worth 1,000 words, but they’re not always the same words). Once that’s done, I actually think everyone would be much closer to being on the same page. If you take EROEI and the environment into account (or not), there’s probably more agreement than differences with regard to future global oil supplies, consumption (and the price of oil) notwithstanding. That’s no excuse for not strategically planning ten or more years into the future, but it would explain why there’s more denial than acceptance of what the future will bring.

]]> By: Don Hirschberg http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2008/12/bp-fights-self-in-phone-booth-loses-match/#comment-41 Don Hirschberg Tue, 02 Dec 2008 01:21:19 +0000 http://www.aspousa.org/?p=495#comment-41 “There’s no use trying,” she (Alice) said, “one can’t believe impossible things.” “I daresay you haven’t had much practice, “said the Queen. “When I was your age I did it for half-an-hour a day.” (Through the Looking Glass) At BP it must be practice, practice, practice. “There’s no use trying,” she (Alice) said, “one can’t believe impossible things.”
“I daresay you haven’t had much practice, “said the Queen. “When I was your age I did it for half-an-hour a day.” (Through the Looking Glass)

At BP it must be practice, practice, practice.

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