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	<title>Comments on: Will Canada be Our Salvation?</title>
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	<link>http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2008/12/will-canada-be-our-salvation/</link>
	<description>Truth in Energy</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 01:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Commodities Broker &#124; DrumBeat: December 23, 2008 &#124; Commodities Options &#124; Commodities Futures &#124; Commodities Prices</title>
		<link>http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2008/12/will-canada-be-our-salvation/#comment-146</link>
		<dc:creator>Commodities Broker &#124; DrumBeat: December 23, 2008 &#124; Commodities Options &#124; Commodities Futures &#124; Commodities Prices</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 16:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Will Canada be Our Salvation? There have been occasional claims from U.S. media sources that oil from Canada, specifically oil from the Athabasca oil sands region, can be the salvation for US oil woes in the future, assuming drilling everywhere in the US doesn’t do the trick. An example of such optimism was exemplified in a 60 Minutes segment about a year ago which gave the impression that the Athabascan region could supply much of the future U.S. oil needs.  There is a considerable volume of oil in the Athabasca region and production has been increasing over the years. But how realistic is it to assume that oil sands oil will provide a significant portion of future U.S. oil needs? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Will Canada be Our Salvation? There have been occasional claims from U.S. media sources that oil from Canada, specifically oil from the Athabasca oil sands region, can be the salvation for US oil woes in the future, assuming drilling everywhere in the US doesn’t do the trick. An example of such optimism was exemplified in a 60 Minutes segment about a year ago which gave the impression that the Athabascan region could supply much of the future U.S. oil needs.  There is a considerable volume of oil in the Athabasca region and production has been increasing over the years. But how realistic is it to assume that oil sands oil will provide a significant portion of future U.S. oil needs? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DrumBeat: December 23, 2008</title>
		<link>http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2008/12/will-canada-be-our-salvation/#comment-144</link>
		<dc:creator>DrumBeat: December 23, 2008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Dec 2008 07:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspousa.org/?p=638#comment-144</guid>
		<description>[...] Will Canada be Our Salvation? There have been occasional claims from U.S. media sources that oil from Canada, specifically oil from the Athabasca oil sands region, can be the salvation for US oil woes in the future, assuming drilling everywhere in the US doesn’t do the trick. An example of such optimism was exemplified in a 60 Minutes segment about a year ago which gave the impression that the Athabascan region could supply much of the future U.S. oil needs.  There is a considerable volume of oil in the Athabasca region and production has been increasing over the years. But how realistic is it to assume that oil sands oil will provide a significant portion of future U.S. oil needs? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Will Canada be Our Salvation? There have been occasional claims from U.S. media sources that oil from Canada, specifically oil from the Athabasca oil sands region, can be the salvation for US oil woes in the future, assuming drilling everywhere in the US doesn’t do the trick. An example of such optimism was exemplified in a 60 Minutes segment about a year ago which gave the impression that the Athabascan region could supply much of the future U.S. oil needs.  There is a considerable volume of oil in the Athabasca region and production has been increasing over the years. But how realistic is it to assume that oil sands oil will provide a significant portion of future U.S. oil needs? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Reiswig</title>
		<link>http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2008/12/will-canada-be-our-salvation/#comment-141</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Reiswig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 21:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspousa.org/?p=638#comment-141</guid>
		<description>Peter Tertzakain, has written a few articles on oil sands production and he is even more skeptical of the ability to ever reach 2.5 to 3 mbd.  Water, Natural Gas, Labor, Infrastructure, Water, and Pollution all seem to have limiting pressures on expansion of this resource.  Chris Skebowski (sp?) has pointed out before that the sands they are mining first are about 11-13% content in oil (the best quality sands) but as they move outward with their projects by content these sands are of less and less density in oil (only 6-8%).  I might have the exact figures wrong, but we all know that the Sands have a poor EROEI to begin with and this just means that it will deteriorate over time.  It's just intuition, but I would bet Oil Sands never get much past 1.75 mbd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter Tertzakain, has written a few articles on oil sands production and he is even more skeptical of the ability to ever reach 2.5 to 3 mbd.  Water, Natural Gas, Labor, Infrastructure, Water, and Pollution all seem to have limiting pressures on expansion of this resource.  Chris Skebowski (sp?) has pointed out before that the sands they are mining first are about 11-13% content in oil (the best quality sands) but as they move outward with their projects by content these sands are of less and less density in oil (only 6-8%).  I might have the exact figures wrong, but we all know that the Sands have a poor EROEI to begin with and this just means that it will deteriorate over time.  It&#8217;s just intuition, but I would bet Oil Sands never get much past 1.75 mbd.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Hunt</title>
		<link>http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2008/12/will-canada-be-our-salvation/#comment-139</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Hunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 17:20:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspousa.org/?p=638#comment-139</guid>
		<description>Dear Roger:

If the world continues it's economic addiction to petroleum liquids I doubt that there is any resource base that will fully satisfy our percieved needs. 

Liquid fuels do have the advantage of energty density but there are many alternatives to petroleum based fluids. 

Take for example the simple liquids of methanol and di methyl ether. Both are easy to produce from coal or other solid hydrogcarb0ons. Indeed when I was working in our House of Reps back in the 70-80's as Director of Research and Analysis on the Energy Subcommittee we had a lot of evidence that at that time we could produce methanol at something like $/18 a gallon from western coal. Further that M-85 was a solid working substitute for gasoline. 

The enthanol craze defeated any attempts tpo go in this direction which was supported by the fasm lobby and subversivly by the API whio did not want to see a low cost alternative but rather one with a much higer marginal price.

True methanol, and it's sister ether, from coal does have some incremental costs in it green house gas disposal but the Bullah synthetic gas plant has found some mechanism for the use of this by product. None the less the Chinese are persuing an aggressive plan to convert in part to the alternative fuels. (I have their construction and plant budgets albeit unburdened by greenhouse considerations.)

The point is alternative energy dense liquids exist and are being deflected by the self interest of the API.

As to the expansion of the heavy oil alternatives be they bitumen mixed with sand and clay or pure heavy oil I would suggest a hard consideration of the work being done by a smaller Canadian company called PetroBank Energy with their THAI and CAPRI processes.

They have an extensive web site describing their work and progress. Further they are looking well beyond the Canadian deposits to other heavy oil plays. I recommend their material to your examination. ONot only is their extraction process faster, cheaper and more productive in recovery it is as environmentally benign as any I have seen.

Will this solve our or world problems? No likely but we are into a period of far more mixed strategies that we were required to addtress during the late period of petroleum abundance.

If EEStor work on elelctric energy storage works out it heralds a whole new age of electric use and generation. Photocatalysis is looking better by the year as are the living organisms' modifications for fuel and energy production.

Conservation in use, through such as the LED's will have to be the other side of the equation and learning to live on less in a material sense is also going to be required. 

The entire social system is today ringing and by so showing it's stress. Lifestyle changes, or what I call Delta B's (changes in behavior and expectations) will be critical and exogenously enforced if not voluntarily adopted.

We have a facinating future and Canada and it's energy resources will play a part in trasition but there are no final answers in anything, as we know.

Peter Hunt

Forgive the spelling I am dyslectic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Roger:</p>
<p>If the world continues it&#8217;s economic addiction to petroleum liquids I doubt that there is any resource base that will fully satisfy our percieved needs. </p>
<p>Liquid fuels do have the advantage of energty density but there are many alternatives to petroleum based fluids. </p>
<p>Take for example the simple liquids of methanol and di methyl ether. Both are easy to produce from coal or other solid hydrogcarb0ons. Indeed when I was working in our House of Reps back in the 70-80&#8217;s as Director of Research and Analysis on the Energy Subcommittee we had a lot of evidence that at that time we could produce methanol at something like $/18 a gallon from western coal. Further that M-85 was a solid working substitute for gasoline. </p>
<p>The enthanol craze defeated any attempts tpo go in this direction which was supported by the fasm lobby and subversivly by the API whio did not want to see a low cost alternative but rather one with a much higer marginal price.</p>
<p>True methanol, and it&#8217;s sister ether, from coal does have some incremental costs in it green house gas disposal but the Bullah synthetic gas plant has found some mechanism for the use of this by product. None the less the Chinese are persuing an aggressive plan to convert in part to the alternative fuels. (I have their construction and plant budgets albeit unburdened by greenhouse considerations.)</p>
<p>The point is alternative energy dense liquids exist and are being deflected by the self interest of the API.</p>
<p>As to the expansion of the heavy oil alternatives be they bitumen mixed with sand and clay or pure heavy oil I would suggest a hard consideration of the work being done by a smaller Canadian company called PetroBank Energy with their THAI and CAPRI processes.</p>
<p>They have an extensive web site describing their work and progress. Further they are looking well beyond the Canadian deposits to other heavy oil plays. I recommend their material to your examination. ONot only is their extraction process faster, cheaper and more productive in recovery it is as environmentally benign as any I have seen.</p>
<p>Will this solve our or world problems? No likely but we are into a period of far more mixed strategies that we were required to addtress during the late period of petroleum abundance.</p>
<p>If EEStor work on elelctric energy storage works out it heralds a whole new age of electric use and generation. Photocatalysis is looking better by the year as are the living organisms&#8217; modifications for fuel and energy production.</p>
<p>Conservation in use, through such as the LED&#8217;s will have to be the other side of the equation and learning to live on less in a material sense is also going to be required. </p>
<p>The entire social system is today ringing and by so showing it&#8217;s stress. Lifestyle changes, or what I call Delta B&#8217;s (changes in behavior and expectations) will be critical and exogenously enforced if not voluntarily adopted.</p>
<p>We have a facinating future and Canada and it&#8217;s energy resources will play a part in trasition but there are no final answers in anything, as we know.</p>
<p>Peter Hunt</p>
<p>Forgive the spelling I am dyslectic.</p>
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		<title>By: Oakville Green Alt Energy: Peakoil</title>
		<link>http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2008/12/will-canada-be-our-salvation/#comment-132</link>
		<dc:creator>Oakville Green Alt Energy: Peakoil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 19:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspousa.org/?p=638#comment-132</guid>
		<description>[...] article ... quotes a great Peak Oil definition Interesting Peak Oil Math Debbie Cook on peak oil Canadian Oil production data     page_revision: 32, last_edited: 1229966366&#124;%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z (%O ago)  edittags history files [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] article &#8230; quotes a great Peak Oil definition Interesting Peak Oil Math Debbie Cook on peak oil Canadian Oil production data     page_revision: 32, last_edited: 1229966366|%e %b %Y, %H:%M %Z (%O ago)  edittags history files [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Maxwell</title>
		<link>http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2008/12/will-canada-be-our-salvation/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Maxwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 17:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspousa.org/?p=638#comment-131</guid>
		<description>Well said</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said</p>
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