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	<title>Comments on: The New Gilded Age</title>
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	<link>http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2009/08/the-new-gilded-age/</link>
	<description>Truth in Energy</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: The Banks vs. Democracy (1 of 2) &#171; Volatility</title>
		<link>http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2009/08/the-new-gilded-age/#comment-3428</link>
		<dc:creator>The Banks vs. Democracy (1 of 2) &#171; Volatility</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 12:58:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspousa.org/?p=2338#comment-3428</guid>
		<description>[...] gained but at a decreasing rate. Only the top 1% has increased its rate of accumulation. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] gained but at a decreasing rate. Only the top 1% has increased its rate of accumulation.</p>
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		<title>By: The Aftermath of the Great Recession, Part I :: ASPO-USA: Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas</title>
		<link>http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2009/08/the-new-gilded-age/#comment-3144</link>
		<dc:creator>The Aftermath of the Great Recession, Part I :: ASPO-USA: Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 21:33:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspousa.org/?p=2338#comment-3144</guid>
		<description>[...] States than any time since 1928. The Middle Class now carries most of the household debt. See my The New Gilded Age. (See Figure 8 below.) The income share of the bottom 90% of people in the U.S. stood at 50% in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] States than any time since 1928. The Middle Class now carries most of the household debt. See my The New Gilded Age. (See Figure 8 below.) The income share of the bottom 90% of people in the U.S. stood at 50% in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Almighty Dollar :: ASPO-USA: Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas</title>
		<link>http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2009/08/the-new-gilded-age/#comment-3062</link>
		<dc:creator>The Almighty Dollar :: ASPO-USA: Association for the Study of Peak Oil and Gas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Sep 2009 17:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspousa.org/?p=2338#comment-3062</guid>
		<description>[...] [My note: See my article The New Gilded Age.] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] [My note: See my article The New Gilded Age.] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Don Dwiggins</title>
		<link>http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2009/08/the-new-gilded-age/#comment-3052</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Dwiggins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 05:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspousa.org/?p=2338#comment-3052</guid>
		<description>Here's one data point for the studies of other countries that I asked for in the previous comment: "The Evolution of Income Concentration in Japan, 1886-2002" (http://ideas.repec.org/p/nbr/nberwo/12558.html).  One sentence from the abstract: "In contrast to the sharp increase in wage income inequality observed in the United States since 1970, the top wage income shares in Japan have remained remarkably stable over the recent decades."

A bit more data: the GINI index of countries from the CIA World Factbook: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2172rank.html.  The US is about a third of the way down (with earlier entries having a higher GINI index, implying greater inequality).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s one data point for the studies of other countries that I asked for in the previous comment: &#8220;The Evolution of Income Concentration in Japan, 1886-2002&#8243; (http://ideas.repec.org/p/nbr/nberwo/12558.html).  One sentence from the abstract: &#8220;In contrast to the sharp increase in wage income inequality observed in the United States since 1970, the top wage income shares in Japan have remained remarkably stable over the recent decades.&#8221;</p>
<p>A bit more data: the GINI index of countries from the CIA World Factbook: <a href="https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2172rank.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2172rank.html</a>.  The US is about a third of the way down (with earlier entries having a higher GINI index, implying greater inequality).</p>
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		<title>By: Don Dwiggins</title>
		<link>http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2009/08/the-new-gilded-age/#comment-3049</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Dwiggins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 00:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspousa.org/?p=2338#comment-3049</guid>
		<description>Looks like you really hit a nerve with this post!

What I'd like to see next would be the graphs, particularly those in Figs. 1 and 6, for a mix of other countries.  Mark Reynolds mentions some, and I'd definitely like to see them included.  I'd particularly like to see the graphs for a representative mix of 3rd world countries as well, because I have a feeling that in many ways, the U.S. is more like a 3rd world country today than like other OECD countries.

Finally, another relevant quote: "We can have concentrated wealth in the hands of a few or we can have democracy.  But we cannot have both." -- Justice Louis D. Brandeis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like you really hit a nerve with this post!</p>
<p>What I&#8217;d like to see next would be the graphs, particularly those in Figs. 1 and 6, for a mix of other countries.  Mark Reynolds mentions some, and I&#8217;d definitely like to see them included.  I&#8217;d particularly like to see the graphs for a representative mix of 3rd world countries as well, because I have a feeling that in many ways, the U.S. is more like a 3rd world country today than like other OECD countries.</p>
<p>Finally, another relevant quote: &#8220;We can have concentrated wealth in the hands of a few or we can have democracy.  But we cannot have both.&#8221; &#8212; Justice Louis D. Brandeis.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Simpson of Slidell LA.</title>
		<link>http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2009/08/the-new-gilded-age/#comment-3048</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Simpson of Slidell LA.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspousa.org/?p=2338#comment-3048</guid>
		<description>Don, a lot of wealthy people volunteered to serve in the military, especially in WW II, Korea, and even in Vietnam. I salute and admire all who served and continue to volunteer today. But there is a great difference between volunteering, and being drafted to serve against your will. Somehow, I think that by the time Vietnam really got going in 1965, the socioeconomic (income, not racial) makeup of the Army ground troops was somewhat different than during WW II or Korea. I suspect that, by then, with the Vietnam War on TV every night, the word got out among the rich to stay in your private college and buy a degree or two, or to locate the right doctors to find something wrong with you in order to avoid going to Vietnam. Maby, if all else fails, get daddy to set you up in some foreign country until it is all over. That plan sure worked out with the Carter pardon, didn't it. I'll bet that it was a little harder for anyone wealthy to avoid service in WW II and Korea, than in Vietnam, but I'm too lazy to research it. I would love to see actual statistics on the family incomes of those who were drafted and were killed or wounded in ground combat in the US Army during the Vietnam War. But I doubt that such data was gathered. Were there a lot of rich draftees in combat over there? I seriously doubt it. I know Cheney got deferments, yet didn't hesitate to attack Iraq. Sadly, most civilians today don't really care much about those who served in past wars. I was a poor white guy who was too skinny and unhealthy to even draft. Foods stamps didn't exist when I was a child. They actually gave me a cardiograph at my draft physical exam! Just so you know, I contribute to several veterans organizations and have always been amazed at the dedication and determination of all who serve in the US military. I've got a 2009 DAV flag on the back window of my old 2000 Expedition, and I don't even speed. I know that it is a gas guzzler, but I don't drive much, and got it very cheaply. You did a great job in Korea. Anyone who doubts that needs only to look at the difference between N.&#38; S. Korea today. My cousin volunteered for the Marines and did his service in Okinawa during the Vietnam War. Now that was luck. 
    If I hated rich people, I sure wouldn't be talking about peak oil, since they could become the first victims of a revolution caused by a peak oil  economic collapse. The rich are still in charge of Washington. Witness the Wall Street bailouts of billionaires with your tax money. We will see how they handle the coming peak oil crisis. I can get by on two gallons a week. But I saw peak oil coming from the vacant 46th floor of the Plaza Tower office building in New Orleans, way back in 1975. From up there you can see all the ships and tugs on the Mississippi River, all the freeways with all those cars, constantly burning all that fuel. Then you realize how many more, far larger, cities exist, and it hits you. One day it will start to run out, then what? Then what?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don, a lot of wealthy people volunteered to serve in the military, especially in WW II, Korea, and even in Vietnam. I salute and admire all who served and continue to volunteer today. But there is a great difference between volunteering, and being drafted to serve against your will. Somehow, I think that by the time Vietnam really got going in 1965, the socioeconomic (income, not racial) makeup of the Army ground troops was somewhat different than during WW II or Korea. I suspect that, by then, with the Vietnam War on TV every night, the word got out among the rich to stay in your private college and buy a degree or two, or to locate the right doctors to find something wrong with you in order to avoid going to Vietnam. Maby, if all else fails, get daddy to set you up in some foreign country until it is all over. That plan sure worked out with the Carter pardon, didn&#8217;t it. I&#8217;ll bet that it was a little harder for anyone wealthy to avoid service in WW II and Korea, than in Vietnam, but I&#8217;m too lazy to research it. I would love to see actual statistics on the family incomes of those who were drafted and were killed or wounded in ground combat in the US Army during the Vietnam War. But I doubt that such data was gathered. Were there a lot of rich draftees in combat over there? I seriously doubt it. I know Cheney got deferments, yet didn&#8217;t hesitate to attack Iraq. Sadly, most civilians today don&#8217;t really care much about those who served in past wars. I was a poor white guy who was too skinny and unhealthy to even draft. Foods stamps didn&#8217;t exist when I was a child. They actually gave me a cardiograph at my draft physical exam! Just so you know, I contribute to several veterans organizations and have always been amazed at the dedication and determination of all who serve in the US military. I&#8217;ve got a 2009 DAV flag on the back window of my old 2000 Expedition, and I don&#8217;t even speed. I know that it is a gas guzzler, but I don&#8217;t drive much, and got it very cheaply. You did a great job in Korea. Anyone who doubts that needs only to look at the difference between N.&amp; S. Korea today. My cousin volunteered for the Marines and did his service in Okinawa during the Vietnam War. Now that was luck.<br />
    If I hated rich people, I sure wouldn&#8217;t be talking about peak oil, since they could become the first victims of a revolution caused by a peak oil  economic collapse. The rich are still in charge of Washington. Witness the Wall Street bailouts of billionaires with your tax money. We will see how they handle the coming peak oil crisis. I can get by on two gallons a week. But I saw peak oil coming from the vacant 46th floor of the Plaza Tower office building in New Orleans, way back in 1975. From up there you can see all the ships and tugs on the Mississippi River, all the freeways with all those cars, constantly burning all that fuel. Then you realize how many more, far larger, cities exist, and it hits you. One day it will start to run out, then what? Then what?</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Kopits</title>
		<link>http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2009/08/the-new-gilded-age/#comment-3044</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Kopits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 23:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspousa.org/?p=2338#comment-3044</guid>
		<description>I suspect the numbers would look different for 2008/2009, when stock prices crashed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect the numbers would look different for 2008/2009, when stock prices crashed.</p>
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		<title>By: captain Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2009/08/the-new-gilded-age/#comment-3042</link>
		<dc:creator>captain Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Aug 2009 22:46:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspousa.org/?p=2338#comment-3042</guid>
		<description>I now have a new vocabulary  for what I hear on NPR and other media.Like the Black Swan idea,-- they are never talking about the economy as in a normal curve, bell curve.When they say on CNBC the Dow is up, it really only means it is  up for the extream top end, more of a skewed curve.If i keep that in mind every time i hear stuff like that on NPR interviews, I can keep in perspective , that the  numbers are only for the top 10%.This must continue to agitate all of us into action to overthrow the ruling elite.Do you think? Why anyone would listen to a kid born during the 1970s oil shocks is simply moronic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I now have a new vocabulary  for what I hear on NPR and other media.Like the Black Swan idea,&#8211; they are never talking about the economy as in a normal curve, bell curve.When they say on CNBC the Dow is up, it really only means it is  up for the extream top end, more of a skewed curve.If i keep that in mind every time i hear stuff like that on NPR interviews, I can keep in perspective , that the  numbers are only for the top 10%.This must continue to agitate all of us into action to overthrow the ruling elite.Do you think? Why anyone would listen to a kid born during the 1970s oil shocks is simply moronic.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Hirschberg</title>
		<link>http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2009/08/the-new-gilded-age/#comment-3036</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Hirschberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 18:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspousa.org/?p=2338#comment-3036</guid>
		<description>Bill Simpson, your comments are long on indignation but short on facts. I can’t take the time to do all the research necessary to do a line by line critique but I can make some comments off the top of my head.

I didn’t fight in Viet Nam but I did fight in Korea. The highest casualty rates were among company grade officers, i.e. lieutenants and captains.  They were the platoon leaders, the helicopter pilots, the forward observers, and patrol leaders. To apply for Army officer training required a college degree, a clean record, and no less than a category II on the mental tests among other qualifications. Very few from poor ghettos qualified. There were only two blacks in my OCS class (Company). One became a good friend, a farmer from Virginia. (It is very costly to train a soldier and even more costly to then send him on to OCS. The Army is very good at predicting what kind of candidate will succeed.)

Before I get jumped on, there are exceptions, as: A holder of the Congressional Medal of Honor can select his duty in the Army. So if he chooses OCS he can go to OCS.  An OCS classmate in his 30’s had the DSC which I presume got him a waiver. It is interesting to note that the Army would not grant a physical waiver for John Kennedy in WWII - imagine the pressure resisted!  He did get a wavier from the Navy.  

As for the poor being cannon fodder, that’s nonsense. Those testing the best went to the combat services: infantry, artillery and armor. A large percentage of the ghetto poor went to truck driving school, cook and baker school, and served in the Quartermasters, a low casualty service.  I have read that a black soldier in Viet Nam was less likely to be shot than if he had stayed home. (Joe Kennedy Jr. got killed, George Bush I got shot down, Bob Dole got horribly wounded, John McCain got shot down, John Kerrey got wounded and on and on – examples of poor cannon fodder?)

Alas, war selectively kills the best DNA.  This is demonstrated by Selective Service records of many millions in WWII.  At that time the migration from the south to the north had not been completed. The mental scores (IQ’s) were in descending order: Northern whites, northern blacks, southern whites, southern blacks.  The effect of this selectivity from the Civil War was still clear in 1940.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill Simpson, your comments are long on indignation but short on facts. I can’t take the time to do all the research necessary to do a line by line critique but I can make some comments off the top of my head.</p>
<p>I didn’t fight in Viet Nam but I did fight in Korea. The highest casualty rates were among company grade officers, i.e. lieutenants and captains.  They were the platoon leaders, the helicopter pilots, the forward observers, and patrol leaders. To apply for Army officer training required a college degree, a clean record, and no less than a category II on the mental tests among other qualifications. Very few from poor ghettos qualified. There were only two blacks in my OCS class (Company). One became a good friend, a farmer from Virginia. (It is very costly to train a soldier and even more costly to then send him on to OCS. The Army is very good at predicting what kind of candidate will succeed.)</p>
<p>Before I get jumped on, there are exceptions, as: A holder of the Congressional Medal of Honor can select his duty in the Army. So if he chooses OCS he can go to OCS.  An OCS classmate in his 30’s had the DSC which I presume got him a waiver. It is interesting to note that the Army would not grant a physical waiver for John Kennedy in WWII - imagine the pressure resisted!  He did get a wavier from the Navy.  </p>
<p>As for the poor being cannon fodder, that’s nonsense. Those testing the best went to the combat services: infantry, artillery and armor. A large percentage of the ghetto poor went to truck driving school, cook and baker school, and served in the Quartermasters, a low casualty service.  I have read that a black soldier in Viet Nam was less likely to be shot than if he had stayed home. (Joe Kennedy Jr. got killed, George Bush I got shot down, Bob Dole got horribly wounded, John McCain got shot down, John Kerrey got wounded and on and on – examples of poor cannon fodder?)</p>
<p>Alas, war selectively kills the best DNA.  This is demonstrated by Selective Service records of many millions in WWII.  At that time the migration from the south to the north had not been completed. The mental scores (IQ’s) were in descending order: Northern whites, northern blacks, southern whites, southern blacks.  The effect of this selectivity from the Civil War was still clear in 1940.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Reynolds</title>
		<link>http://www.aspousa.org/index.php/2009/08/the-new-gilded-age/#comment-3035</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Reynolds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.aspousa.org/?p=2338#comment-3035</guid>
		<description>Dave, I've greatly enjoyed your recent columns. They've been finely crafted and stimulating. This time you've picked a huge topic and it may need more space for development.

Social equity and the distribution of wealth seem to be a lot more out of whack in the USA than in other OECD countries. Living in Australia as I do I have only visited the USA half a dozen times over 20 years but every day we in Australia are immersed in news about US events and issues, which have been rather tumultuous this last 12 months. One of the striking features of US society to a distant spectator and occasional visitor is the way that large differences in wealth, income and access seem to be taken for granted as "the way things are".

Australia is hardly perfect and we have a terrible record with our aboriginals but our institutions manage to pay a living wage to the lowest level of workers – often $15 to $20 an hour compared with much less in the USA. The consequences are twofold – the low-paid feel they have a stake in society and society is given levers it can pull to manage equity issues. These levers include minimum wage rates, taxes (because the poor do pay some tax), and social security payments of which Australia has quite a variety. None of this has much effect on the wealth of the top 1% but it sure is sustaining and civilising for the bottom 20 - 30%.

The European countries and particularly Scandinavia have even stronger redistributive arrangements than Australia so perhaps the model here is worth a look as some sort of middle ground. We even have a national taxation enquiry going on at the moment which includes examining how well the tax system supports social equity goals so the mechanisms are out in the open for discussion. And yes, the wealthy and powerful do keep arguing for a bigger slice of the cake, opposed by well-supported groups arguing the other way. Australia is no golden ideal but like Scandinavia we seem to have found a method to minimise the extent of abject poverty and misery at the bottom of society.

What does it take for a nation to do this? Two big things I think – a community that expects everyone to get a fair go, and legal structures that actively support the weaker members of society to everyone's benefit. For example most of us in other countries find the passionate opposition to universal healthcare in the US to be quite extraordinary. It is obvious to the onlooker how certain groups of Americans benefit from the enormous sums of money swilling through your current health arrangements, and we find it amazing that the interests of the insiders seem to outweigh the lives of millions who lack access to basic care or can be made bankrupt by illness or accident. On this equity issue and so many others, what on earth is going on in your great nation?

Finally, forgive me for butting in to the concerns of others. I just can't let this topic pass.

Mark</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave, I&#8217;ve greatly enjoyed your recent columns. They&#8217;ve been finely crafted and stimulating. This time you&#8217;ve picked a huge topic and it may need more space for development.</p>
<p>Social equity and the distribution of wealth seem to be a lot more out of whack in the USA than in other OECD countries. Living in Australia as I do I have only visited the USA half a dozen times over 20 years but every day we in Australia are immersed in news about US events and issues, which have been rather tumultuous this last 12 months. One of the striking features of US society to a distant spectator and occasional visitor is the way that large differences in wealth, income and access seem to be taken for granted as &#8220;the way things are&#8221;.</p>
<p>Australia is hardly perfect and we have a terrible record with our aboriginals but our institutions manage to pay a living wage to the lowest level of workers – often $15 to $20 an hour compared with much less in the USA. The consequences are twofold – the low-paid feel they have a stake in society and society is given levers it can pull to manage equity issues. These levers include minimum wage rates, taxes (because the poor do pay some tax), and social security payments of which Australia has quite a variety. None of this has much effect on the wealth of the top 1% but it sure is sustaining and civilising for the bottom 20 - 30%.</p>
<p>The European countries and particularly Scandinavia have even stronger redistributive arrangements than Australia so perhaps the model here is worth a look as some sort of middle ground. We even have a national taxation enquiry going on at the moment which includes examining how well the tax system supports social equity goals so the mechanisms are out in the open for discussion. And yes, the wealthy and powerful do keep arguing for a bigger slice of the cake, opposed by well-supported groups arguing the other way. Australia is no golden ideal but like Scandinavia we seem to have found a method to minimise the extent of abject poverty and misery at the bottom of society.</p>
<p>What does it take for a nation to do this? Two big things I think – a community that expects everyone to get a fair go, and legal structures that actively support the weaker members of society to everyone&#8217;s benefit. For example most of us in other countries find the passionate opposition to universal healthcare in the US to be quite extraordinary. It is obvious to the onlooker how certain groups of Americans benefit from the enormous sums of money swilling through your current health arrangements, and we find it amazing that the interests of the insiders seem to outweigh the lives of millions who lack access to basic care or can be made bankrupt by illness or accident. On this equity issue and so many others, what on earth is going on in your great nation?</p>
<p>Finally, forgive me for butting in to the concerns of others. I just can&#8217;t let this topic pass.</p>
<p>Mark</p>
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